Talk:Motoo Ōtaguro

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Coolperson177 (talk) 18:54, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

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Motoo Ōtaguro in 1917

• ... that music critic Motoo Ōtaguro (pictured) held private piano concerts in his own residence, despite not being a professional musician? Source: "そこで大田黒は「ピアノの夕べ」と題するサロン・コンサートを企て、自らのピアノでそれらの楽曲を十数人の聴衆に披露することにした。もとより大田黒は職業的な演奏家ではないが、ロンドン留学前に音楽学校の教師八ン力・ペツォルト夫人からピアノの手ほどきを受けたことがあり、自分に弾 きこなせる範囲で、ドビュッシーやスクリャービンなど当時最先端の作曲家を紹介し たのである。" Numabe, Shin-ichi (October 17, 2016). "Nihon no kindai ongaku wa koko kara hajimatta. Ōtaguro Motoo to "piano no yūbe"" 日本の近代音楽はここから始まった 大田黒元雄と「ピアノの夕べ」. Otaguro Motoo no piano 100nen no yoin 大田黒元雄のピアノ ―100年の余韻― [Motoo Ohtaguro's Piano - A Century of Resonance] (booklet) (in Japanese). Kojima rokuon. pp. 6–7. OCLC 1081083571. ALCD-7200.
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Sensor (manga)
  • Comment: Apologies for the source being in Japanese, it's hard to find English sources about him. Date range is on the next page, it's the only thing I took from that page. If you cannot read any Japanese, Nunokawa & Numabe 2008 cited in article is in English plus open access and mentions his concerts too, but it's not the reference I used in the article for that claim.

Created by RoseCherry64 (talk). Self-nominated at 23:33, 27 December 2021 (UTC).

• Approve Hook and Image The article was moved to mainspace yesterday, is ~2000 characters, and reads neutrally with inline citations, AGF on the non-English references. The hook is short enough, interesting, and cited inline. The QPQ has been done and the image is in the public domain. Looks good to go! Silverseren^C 03:14, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
• To Prep 1. — Coolperson177 (t|c) 18:54, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

Dedication

We're told:

Ōtaguro held a piano concert at the Tokyo YMCA center titled "Scriabin–Debussy Evening". This was the first concert in Japan dedicated to both composers' music.

I believe that this means that this was the first concert in Japan whose content was entirely by Scriabin and Debussy. (It wasn't entirely by Debussy, as more or less of its content was by Scriabin.)

It comes with a note:

There had been a few performances of Debussy's music in Tokyo before, the first one being a performance of Sarabande from Pour le piano by Rudolph Ernest Reuter on November 24, 1909. However, Ōtaguro's concert was the first one with a program dedicated to his music.

This implies to me that the content of Ōtaguro's concert was entirely by Debussy. But what about Scriabin? -- Hoary (talk) 23:10, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Kasaba 1986, pp. 32–33 has a list of the Debussy performances in Tokyo from 1909–25. Ōtaguro was the first to play more than one piece by Debussy at a concert in Japan, and Arayashiki 2018, p. 154 leads me to believe he was the first to ever play Scriabin in a concert in the country. I think maybe it's less confusing if I change "program dedicated to" with "program significantly consisting of his music". RoseCherry64 (talk) 23:37, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

"more than one piece" isn't technically correct either, the Two Arabesques were performed in October 1911 by Katsuko Honda per Kasaba 1986, p. 32. In total, there are five concerts listed in the source prior to Ōtaguro's concert, and out of those, one has two pieces performed and the rest only a shorter one. Indeed, most sources tend to gloss over the earlier concerts which featured Debussy's compositions very briefly and just claim that he was the first. RoseCherry64 (talk) 23:43, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Hmm, then I'd err on the side of understatement and say something like 'Ōtaguro held a piano concert at the Tokyo YMCA center titled "Scriabin–Debussy Evening", combining the works of two composers still little-known in Japan.'" Perhaps with a note along the lines of (i) 'Five earlier performances of Debussy are known, but none constituted more than a minor part of a concert', plus perhaps (ii) something about Scriabin. -- Hoary (talk) 01:14, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

I tweaked it a little bit. Tried and failed to find anything about earlier Scriabin concerts in Japan. Doesn't seem likely either, and indeed scholars seem to attribute both composers being introduced by Ōtaguro. RoseCherry64 (talk) 17:38, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Residence

Was his "residence" (mentioned twice) a house? -- Hoary (talk) 23:14, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

There are two residences mentioned, and I gave the date when he moved there to not be confusing. The one in Suginami is an enormous plot of land his father bought for him (detailed in one of the cited sources, don't remember which one right now). I assume the one in Ōmori-sannō being a larger mansion, as it's a wealthy residential district. RoseCherry64 (talk) 23:26, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

OK, but I've always taken "residence" to be either (a) realtor-speak for "house", "apartment" or anything else on the market or (b) a euphemism for something (such as an apartment) that's somehow less than a house. -- Hoary (talk) 01:21, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

It's that amiable Briticism des res that does it for me. -- Hoary (talk) 02:03, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

I changed the first mention to mansion. Not sure if there's a better word for residence for the enormous piece of land he later owned. RoseCherry64 (talk) 17:31, 13 January 2022 (UTC)